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Article - THE
JOHN BARRY INTERVIEW; 1994
Geoff Leonard
For
John Barry, the 3rd November of 1994 proved to be much more than
just another birthday for him. On that day, much to his obvious
delight, his wife Laurie gave birth to a baby - Jonpatrick - their
first child, and Barry's first son (he already has three grown-up
daughters). Barry shows no sign of slowing down his heavy schedule
and when we spoke in December, he was enthusiastically starting
work on a project which involves 'Imax', a recently developed
film technique, which uses 3-D and seventy-foot high screens.
However, we began our conversation by talking about his latest
film score, 'The Specialist', before turning to other recently
completed and forthcoming projects.
John, The Specialist is quite different from the projects you've
tackled recently, what particularly interested you about the film?
Well,
Stallone usually concentrates on action type films. This film
wasn't that, it was more of a movie film-noire style, and it was
that which attracted me to it. Another thing I particularly liked
was the fact that the Stallone character and the Sharon Stone
character don't meet until about a third of the way through the
movie. The fact that he stalks her, they have telephone contact,
and he starts to fall in love with her just through this type
of contact, I found really interesting. So the music has a major
part to play, I felt, in getting that relationship going, because
as they weren't actually physically together from the start, it
helped set the mood between the two of them. I thought that was
something I'd never had to do before in a movie.
The
CD album is almost an hour long, does this reflect the fact there
is plenty of music in the film?
Yes,
there is a lot of music in the movie. I suppose there are only
two really big action sequences, one at the beginning and one
at the end, but what also interested me was that there wasn't
the usual kind of car chase thing with lots of noise. The excitement
in the movie was the build-up to the explosion each time. So although
the audience know what's going to happen, I use a lot of red-herring
cues, you build each time and then as the explosion happens the
noise cuts off. So it wasn't a typical action film. You know,
I get offered a lot of action scripts, and having done most of
the Bond films, I really want to do something a little different.
I also thought it would be good to do a big-audience picture,
which it has proved to be. So, although I admit it's a very popular
genre, it allowed me to do something different from the usual
action score.
Who
first approached you to do it, and did you then follow the usual
pattern of reading the script and seeing the film, or some footage?
The
producer, Jerry Weintraub, initially approached me and then I
had a meeting with Luis Llosa, the director. The film was made
completely on location in Miami, and although I don't normally
go to locations, I wanted to see some footage and on this occasion
they had everything based in the Fontainbleau Hotel there - all
the cutting and editing rooms were actually in the Hotel. (Note:
the pool scenes at the beginning of 'Goldfinger' were shot at
this hotel.) So I went down there for a couple of days, saw them
shooting some stuff, saw a lot of footage, and then came back
here to await the fine cut.
How
long did it take to write and record the score?
I
got the main thematic material way ahead, in fact, when I knew
I was going to be doing it. Then I recorded those two tracks in
July in London, with the Royal Philharmonic, when I was
doing my Moviola 2 album, for inclusion on the song album they've
put out, which features Gloria Estefan with Emilio producing.
I did those tracks at an early stage because if I'd waited until
I scored the movie I knew I wouldn't have time to include them
on the song-score album. Then we recorded all the music in Los
Angeles in September, and I used an eighty-piece orchestra.
I
notice you've used Ronnie Lang (alto-sax) and Michael Lang (piano)
for solos on the album, both of whom have played for you before.
Do you like to request individual musicians in this way?
Yes,
and I consider they are both extraordinary musicians. Ronnie,
of course, used to play for the Harry James band, and so he comes
from that big-band era. His playing still has that wonderful edge,
and he understands exactly what to do. When you talk to him it's
like a director talking to an actor, make it lighter or heavier,
or whatever - he just drops straight in there. Michael Lang is
a wonderfully inventive pianist.
Would
you do the same thing when you're recording in the UK, in asking
for certain players, or do you leave it all to the judgement of
the fixer?
Well
in London I have a marvellous alto-sax player, David White, whom
we used on the first Moviola album. He played solos on Body
Heat and The Cotton Club and is a really wonderful
musician.
I'm
looking forward to seeing the film; certainly the score suggests
a mood similar to some moments in Body Heat and Hammett, which
I thoroughly enjoyed.
Yes,
I love that kind of genre, and the director, Luis Llosa, really
captured the feel of it. The lighting, too, is very special. Luis
is Peruvian, incidentally, and this is only the second film he's
made in America - Sniper was the first.
The
film didn't get brilliant reviews in America but still did well
at the box-office. I imagine they must have great hopes for it
when it opens in Britain.
It
did huge business in America. I believe worldwide so far it's
done 120 million dollars, which can't be bad! I think Warners knew it was the kind of film that wouldn't necessarily get
good reviews. They didn't show it to the press beforehand, which
always gets a back-lash, but instead they ran a big TV campaign
just two weeks before it opened, with saturation coverage, and
it achieved the biggest October opening, taking around 14 million
dollars during the first weekend.
Returning
to the album, the CD seems to run almost without noticeable gaps
between tracks, giving the effect of a suite - was this a deliberate
policy?
Right,
I like doing that. I did that with my engineer, Shawn Murphy,
and if you remember we achieved a similar effect on my Dances
With Wolves album. I love making it fit together in that way,
almost as one piece.
Now,
you mentioned Moviola Two - can you tell me anything about that
project?
Yes,
I believe the album will be out in April, I'm in the process of
getting the artwork together as we speak. All the music was recorded
at George Martin's Air studio in Hampstead, London during July.
There is a Bond suite that includes Goldfinger, The James Bond
Theme, From Russia With Love, Thunderball, 007, You Only Live
Twice, On Her Majesty's Secret Service, Diamonds Are Forever,
All Time High (Octopussy). Themes from Until September,
King Kong, Zulu. Then we have an action suite from Dances
With Wolves - Pawnee Attack, Kicking Bird's Gift, Journey To Fort
Sedgewick, Two Socks - The Wolf Theme, Farewell and Finale (parts
one and 2). Finally the two tracks from The Specialist we talked about earlier. I'm very excited about it, I think it
makes a wonderful album.
Turning
to your musical, Billy, I saw a piece in a local paper
recently which quoted Jason Donovan as saying he was thinking
over an offer to star in the title role. Is there anything in
this?
Absolutely,
we're definitely doing it again this year with Jason playing Billy.
I believe we go into rehearsals in May and open in Manchester
in early July, before hopefully moving into the West End.
That's
excellent news, as it was a major disappointment a few years ago
when a revival was cancelled at the last moment due to problems
with the production company. Are you confident of no hitches on
this occasion?
Yes,
we've some excellent people involved this time, and I'm particularly
pleased that Patrick Garland will be back directing.
I
saw the show for the first time a few weeks ago in Bristol, through
a performance by the junior section of the Bristol Amateur Operatic
Society.
Oh
really, what was it like?
Well,
bearing in mind it was an amateur production, I thought they put
a lot of hard work and energy into it. I heard and enjoyed the
two new songs you wrote with Don Black, and was very impressed
with the lad who played Billy. I hadn't realised quite what a
demanding part it is.
Oh
yes, he's on the go constantly - virtually on stage throughout
- which is why it's been so difficult to cast.
Now,
in the new year we shall see CD reissues of King Rat, The Wrong
Box, The Lion in Winter, and a gold edition of Dances with
Wolves. I once heard Jerry Goldsmith talking at a film music
seminar when he said he didn't care for all these reissues, as
he considered there was already far too much of his music available
on CD. What is your reaction to these reissues?
No,
I don't really go along with that. In fact, Dances with Wolves is going to be a very special kind of package, and I quite like
these old scores coming out - they're being put together in an
excellent fashion. There are one or two of my very old scores
I could well do without being reissued (laughs).
Do
you mean as with Four in the Morning?
Yes,
exactly. That was a very sparse score. I mean, it worked perfectly
for the movie, but it's not a piece you want to listen to away
from the movie. It was a very dark picture with a very limited
budget, like an oboe and four cellos or something - I don't really
think the score is for record consumption. But I love my score
for The Wrong Box and for King Rat which was my very first Hollywood
score - Bryan Forbes took me over there for that one.
I'm
sure you remember a film you scored early in the sixties - The
Party's Over - directed by Guy Hamilton. EMI apparently have a
recording of the theme which they might release on a third volume
of their EMI Years series. Was this simply your arrangement of
the standard song?
Well
let me say straight away that The Party's Over was a very
low budget black and white film. They said they were going to
buy the rights to the song to be able to include it in the film,
and I told them they wouldn't be able to afford it - the cost
would exceed their total budget for the film. Which proved to
be the case. So I wrote a song called 'Time Waits For No Man'
for Annie Ross, but there was nothing called 'The Party's Over',
so I don't know what this theme is they have.
I
noticed 'Unchained Melody' is also listed.
Well,
I didn't do that. In fact, there were one or two things on that
second volume they did that I don't recall. I mean you always
remember things like that. You might have forgotten you did it
but as soon as you hear the first few notes you think, "Christ,
yes I did do that!" When I look back, there was an amazing amount
of stuff recorded in a very short period of time. It was as though
we were in Abbey Road every week!
John,
as you know the Louis Armstrong recording of 'We Have All The
Time In The World' has recently been a huge hit in Britain having
reached number 3 in the singles charts - you've told the story
before about how it was originally only successful in Italy. Wasn't
it a drunken DJ who played it all night?
I
don't know whether he was drunk! Did I say he was drunk? No, it
was this one guy in Rome who liked it and played it and as a result
we had a number one hit for months. When On Her Majesty's Secret
Service opened it was the only place in the world where we
had any success with the song.
I
suppose the song was rather hidden away in the film.
Yes,
but also O.H.M.S.S. was the first of the Bond films not
to make any real money.
I
thought it was a fine film and maybe if Sean Connery had played
Bond it could have been different.
Yes,
I don't think George Lazenby ever really connected with the part.
On the other hand, I thought the film had some of the best action
sequences in the series, with excellent direction from Peter Hunt.
Now
you wrote the song with Hal David, after previously working mainly
with Leslie Bricusse or Don Black - how did this collaboration
come about?
Well,
I can't recall the circumstances exactly, but Hal was in London
at the time which is how we met, and at that stage we already
knew we weren't going to have a song called 'On Her Majesty's
Secret Service' - I mean, what can you do with a title like that!
But, there was a line in the script, almost the last line - "We
have all the time in the world", as his wife gets killed, which
was also in Fleming's original novel, and I liked that as a title
very much. Now I'd always liked Walter Huston singing 'September
Song' in the film 'September Affair', where as an older character
he sang about his life in a kind of reflective vein. So, I suggested
to Cubby Broccoli and Harry Saltzman that Louis Armstrong would
be ideal to sing our song in this fashion.
So
he was your suggestion?
Yes,
and it was quite frightening really, because until then we'd gone
for current pop stars of the day like Tom Jones and Nancy Sinatra.
So this was quite a departure. Anyway, they both loved the idea,
so we called his agent and Louis was still in hospital actually
at that stage - he'd been there for about a year. But he said
he'd love to do it. He came out of hospital and sadly it was the
last song he ever recorded. We did it in New York, at the old
A & R Studios, which have since been pulled down. The engineer
on that session was Phil Ramone, who produces all the Sinatra
sessions and all those wonderful Billy Joel songs. Although we
recorded the song in New York, the rest of the score was done
as usual at CTS in London.
Do
you mind that the song has become a hit now in Britain probably
only because of the success of the Guinness advert?
Absolutely
not. I think Guinness is a hell of a drink! It's ironic
in a way that somebody's selling ale and you get a hit out of
it. But that's the way of the world. Actually, Hal David came
to tea on Sunday and we discussed another song we wrote. You might
remember Monte Walsh, my very first Western that starred
Lee Marvin and Jack Palance. I thought it was a very interesting
movie but it wasn't particularly successful. Anyway, we wrote
a song for the movie called 'The Good Times Are Coming' which
was sung by Mama Cass. I said to Hal that I didn't think I had
a tape of it anywhere, but I'd love to get it released again,
because I loved that song. It turned out to be one of Hal's favourites
too, so we're going to see what we can do.
You
decided not to do the Nicholas Cage film, It Could Happen To You,
after problems with the producer. I saw the soundtrack recently
which is now full of pop songs, and this also happened with The
Bodyguard - a film that you also once considered scoring. Would
you say producers are interfering more these days, and is this
why you've left the occasional project?
Well
that wasn't the reason I didn't do those films, it was something
else. No, funnily enough, Emilio Estefan wrote many songs for The Specialist before I got involved and I think initially
they thought it was going to be more of a song score. But you
could tell from reading the script that it wouldn't work, because
it was so specific in its action and its detail and its momentum
that your instincts tell you that songs are not going to carry
those moments. So I think some songs got rather short shrift in
the movie - which I'm sad about, but it's one of those things
- you can't have it all ways all of the time.
What
about future projects, John, you've mentioned Billy, but is anything
else on the horizon? Travels With Charlie, for example.
Yes,
we've got a script going on that at the moment. I'm doing it with
'Tig Productions', which is Kevin Costner's company, and I'm co-producing
with Jim Wilson. We're in the process of presenting it to various
Television networks - it's always been designed for television.
It'll probably be done in three two-hour segments, we've got a
very good screenplay and I'm optimistic we can do a deal with
one of the networks.
Something
else we've just done, concerns Somewhere in time. I've
always wanted someone to come up with a lyric for my main melody
for that film, and although several people have tried, I've never
been really happy with any of them. Now, B. A. Robertson has written
a wonderful, wonderful lyric and Michael Crawford is opening in
the MGM Grand in Las Vegas in a new show that starts on
New Year's Eve and will feature it. He's also recorded it just
last weekend with some other songs for a new album for Atlantic.
Many
people would be delighted if you scored Goldeneye, the
new Bond film - is there a chance of this?
I
really don't know at this stage. We'll have to see. It's much
too early to say.
So
you haven't turned it down?
Well
you know what they say - you never say never!
Does
this also apply to concerts?
As
far as concerts are concerned, we've been talking to the management
of the Royal Philharmonic because having done the two albums
they're familiar with the music and it would reduce the time needed
for rehearsals. Because when you're going into a concert with
an orchestra, the rehearsal time allocated is normally so short.
I remember doing a concert at the Hollywood Bowl with the Los
Angeles Philharmonic and I literally had a three-hour rehearsal.
And you can't do any more than a read through really, you can't
get into any kind of fine tuning - I was a total nervous wreck
before I went on. So unless you can have a finely-rehearsed orchestra,
then I really don't want to know about it. But if something can
be worked out with the Royal Philharmonic, either here in America
or in England, I would be glad to do it, maybe a series of three
or four concerts in London, Birmingham, Glasgow etc., I would
like to do that - if we can bring our schedules together.
So
as far as you're concerned, rehearsal time is critical?
Absolutely.
But as I say, they know all the music, they've rehearsed and recorded
it, so it would mean that if I could have one day's rehearsal
with them, just to bring them up to scratch, it would be fine.
John,
it's been an excellent year for you, we're looking forward to
seeing The Specialist and to hearing Moviola 2 when it's released.
Thanks very much for your time.
Thank
you Geoff. |
